Speaker 1: 0:41

Danielle, have you done any good reading lately? Yes, as a matter of fact, I have done some reading lately. Most of my books are often about marketing and social media, but once in a while it's nice to read something that is not for business. So, yes, I've read some good books lately, that there's actually this really great book that I would love to talk about at some point.

Speaker 2: 1:03

So we actually had some fan mail come in requesting that we interview a local author and we love everything local because of our podcast name, right, people of.

Speaker 1: 1:15

Northwest Arkansas. People of Northwest Arkansas.

Speaker 2: 1:17

And so the author that we have here today is Tua Tony Lee, and he wrote the book A Star on the Other Side, which is a memoir of a lost Hmong refugee child, and he actually has his daughter in here with him today, stephanie Richardson. Welcome in, guys.

Speaker 3: 1:37

Thank you so much for having us and sharing space with us this morning.

Speaker 4: 1:41

Of course, yeah, thank you for having me here, and nice to meet you too, young lady, and also thank you whoever referred me to you too.

Speaker 2: 1:52

Of course I know I love when we get requests like that. It just means a lot. It means you know the connection locally. Someone hears a story and they want to explore that more, share that, and so, yeah, I read your book and I actually did the audio, which, stephanie, you did the narration of the audio book. It was really good, especially for someone who's never done something like that before Totally brand new something so personal right, so tell us a little bit, either one of you.

Speaker 2: 2:21

You want to just give our listeners like a brief overview of what your book is about sure it's about my life after the secret war.

Speaker 4: 2:31

I'm sure lots of people don't know about the secret war in Laos. So let's see Laos and Vietnam, both neighboring countries all the way to the border of China. And during the Vietnam war the North created a supply path called the Ho Chi Minh Trail. It came from the North inside Laos all the way to the south, and so the CIA wanted to stop the supply line. So they came to Laos, then talked to the Laos government, just went straight to the Hmong people, trained them in six weeks and had them fight, block the supply line. So after the CIA pulled out of Laos and the soldier, us soldier pulled out of Vietnam, 1975 and the new government come in and they will kill anybody that involved with the CIA. It's like the teacher, interpreter or former soldier. So that's why we run back in the jungle. The men just gather themselves, call themselves the freedom fighters and that's why my story it's about. After the Vietnam War is over and we live in the jungle, my journey to the US.

Speaker 1: 3:50

You were 10 years old when you started that journey. Is that right?

Speaker 4: 3:54

Yeah, I was about 10 years old, living in the jungle for two and a half years.

Speaker 1: 4:00

Yes.

Speaker 3: 4:00

That is like Separated from his family.

Speaker 1: 4:04

Which is so wild, yeah, and I think about.

Speaker 2: 4:06

We both have children that age.

Speaker 1: 4:08

Around that age yeah.

Speaker 4: 4:10

Yeah, you know, 10 years old, living with a group of four young men and four older men and I was the only child. Like in the jungle, you know, it's like in the jungle. You got all these snakes. It's killer animals. Now talk about the mining, the soldiers. It's just crazy in there mining the soldier.

Speaker 2: 4:36

It's just crazy, yeah. When I read the book and I was thinking about the scene where you visited, or you described visiting your brothers You're going to go visit his grave and a cobra came out.

Speaker 4: 4:47

Yes, yes.

Speaker 2: 4:48

I mean, that's yeah.

Speaker 1: 4:51

My kids can't handle fake snakes that we, you know, know, put around the house to scare them with. I mean imagine being so young and having to, I mean, that is quite an experience, just even so. Animals and the bugs and the insects and killer ants, killer ants like all of it.

Speaker 4: 5:09

Talk about the leash too. We'll get to that because I have.

Speaker 2: 5:13

I want to yeah, because I have questions about that we're going to talk about all the deadly things.

Speaker 2: 5:18

So the first thing, like I was listening to your book, just in the opening chapter you said behind every face lies a novel and if it were made visible it'd be very difficult to not have love and compassion for the teller. And that really struck me, because that's kind of at the heart of why we do this. We feel like everyone has a story to tell, and I mean you. Just when you're out in your community there's so many people and you don't know what they've been through to be there and the story of behind how they're here, and so I kind of wanted to know if that, what is what motivated you to write this book well, I know like especially for me even with my own father.

Speaker 3: 5:59

I grew up with him and I didn't even know his story wow because they grew up in a time where it's about survival and you don't sit and you know, talk about your traumas or right you just it happened and now you have to move on right now.

Speaker 3: 6:16

And so, dad, growing up, he was just really quiet and just you know, he just kept to himself. And so his first draft I was about 26 years old when I first read it and I was like, oh my gosh, it took 26 years for me to understand him like this is why he was the way he was, and so I think that is extremely important, that if we travel our days with the awareness that this person that's in front of me is just, is more than just a face. There's this story behind this person, and if we can keep that in mind, I think we can coexist so much more in like, in a passionate way where we can have more compassion for people, we can treat each other with more kindness, knowing that you don't know what battles we're all fighting.

Speaker 3: 7:06

you know silently.

Speaker 1: 7:07

Absolutely, that was really important. Yeah, how did that impact you as his daughter? Like, how did, did how did that change your view of your dad? Like, yeah, yeah, how did you react to that?

Speaker 3: 7:20

I was like, wow, my dad is truly like the star on the other side, because for him to go through all of those things and still be so kind and generous, it's like and and still so strong. It just made me feel like it minimized my own problems, where I'm like, okay, if dad can go through those things, even my kids you can hear them. If, if, if grandpa can dodge bullets and bombs, you know I can do this. So, yeah, it's really made me feel proud.

Speaker 1: 7:52

That's amazing, it really yeah, that perspective shift, I mean when I was starting to think about how old you were and living in the jungle and going through the things that you were going through. And I'm looking at my kids who are nine, almost 10, and one who's 12 and just that age range right there and just how unbelievably privileged they are, and just the perspective that it gave me as a parent was pretty. I mean, I'm trying, I'm like Daniel's, like don't cry, don't cry, don't cry.

Speaker 2: 8:22

Yeah, hold it back. I know she's always the one that cries.

Speaker 1: 8:25

I just, I am a very emotional emotive person and I'm I'm fine with being that person, you know, and I think that it's so neat. I love, I love generational stories as well, like learning about the generations before us, and you know, I have certain parts of history with my family that are just. You know, you find out as an at an older age and you're just like, wow, I didn't know this about you dad, or I didn't know this about you mom or grandma they're actually a person. They actually lived full adventurous lives.

Speaker 2: 8:57

It's like your kids forget. You're like had your own lifetime right I'm sorry.

Speaker 1: 9:02

I thought you lived for me. I thought that's what your life was about. So how? Did you feel about your daughter reading this like what was that like for you?

Speaker 4: 9:13

yeah, for me too it's really easy to cry. You know, I can watch movie and then I will just my tear will just run down and say, well, that's me too, yeah, it's. It's very hard for me to sit there and tell my story to my children and that's why I wrote this book just to tell them what I've been through. And I'm happy she get involved with this book and it's you know, so she understand whatever I talk about it. She know exactly what I'm been through and what I'm gonna say. Yes, I can see y'all's bond.

Speaker 2: 9:54

I can like tell it's a very strong but that's kind of a theme in your book is the unbreakable family bond and you brought something up when you're talking about why he wrote the book about like his kindness and that's a theme I saw throughout the book was I noticed like from your point of view you described a lot of scenes that I won't say on here. You'll have to read the book to find out that were really hard in some points to like read what you saw, the devastation and the violence and the things that happened. But I love that you always took a moment to feel empathy or sympathy or had your own way of like honoring that person or finding like a beautiful moment to really enjoy. And I know like through the story there were points where you talked about your anger which, who wouldn't?

Speaker 2: 10:45

be mad. But you like come to and we won't like spoil things. But you come to find hope and I know that's a. It's a something throughout your your book that you talk about is hope and how that drove you. We'll dig into that a little bit more. But yeah, you seem to have an unbreakable spirit and you were not willing to let go to that, let go of that humanness in you, and I feel like that would. That's really hard for a 10-year-old to hold on to that.

Speaker 2: 11:46

So I think your parents, even though you talked about how they showed love through discipline. But that bond and that discipline, it seems like, is what kept you going.

Speaker 4: 11:58

Yes, the way my parents disciplined me it's a little bit different. They just not give me a kiss in the forehead to go to bed, or give me a hug, say I love you, anything like that. They would just tell you exactly what they wanted to be done. And I didn't understand then, until I was alone in the woods sitting by myself and and my group they just, whether it's in the middle of the day or night, they won't sit by you. They were like 10 or 15 away from you and you just sit there thinking about your family. And I came to understand that, oh, this is what they're talking about trying to be good. This is the way they love each other. That's why they don't want me to get into trouble. That's all it is. And so I said well, if I ever have children, I will have a different way of telling them yes, I'll.

Speaker 2: 13:00

I'll think that you have very high emotional intelligence for a 10 year old, because I feel like I know adults my age, like thirties, forties, that are just now understanding, like the intention or maybe were their parents how they were raised, and so I I just couldn't help but feel at your age what an, how mature you were. I mean, you were kind of forced to grow up quickly but wow, the self-reflection there was incredible.

Speaker 3: 13:29

Even I thought the same thing.

Speaker 5: 13:30

I was like wow like how did he know at?

Speaker 3: 13:32

such a young age, how to make such crucial decisions? Because, I even still now I'm like, oh my gosh, I don't, you know, get kind of indecisive. But you know, back then you were held to higher standards. You weren't allowed to be a kid. You were cooking and cleaning at five years old, you know. So he had to grow up fast and yeah, it was just. It was remarkable just how his mind I know I couldn't believe.

Speaker 4: 13:59

Yes, yeah, back then you were three years old. You, you had to work, the little thing that you can do it and. And my grandpa always taught me that. Well, you are seven, eight years old. You should know how to act like a grown-up man, and that's your job, and that's how, when you're sitting by yourself in the wood, that's all these coming together, wow.

Speaker 2: 14:25

So how did you decide what parts of your experience that you wanted to include? And then, was it difficult to write these memories down or to revisit them for you?

Speaker 4: 14:37

it's crazy. I always has a bad dream that I still in the wood running away from soldiers, like almost every night, that they were coming close to me trying to catch me, and for me it's trying to find a way to hide right. And no matter how hard you try, you just cannot run anymore and you're just so scared and then woke up still shaking and sweating. So it's very hard for me to go back and go through my journey again. That's why it takes so long for me to write the book. I want to write it but I just don't know how I'm going to face that and that's why it takes a little bit longer.

Speaker 4: 15:17

But I thought about my children and the Hmong children. They still think that we Hmong parents just pack a suitcase and come to America. That's not the case. We were the survivors of the killing field and we had no choice. We came to Thailand. We just sat in the camp just waiting for a family member to show up, or we just want to go back eventually, and that's why it's really hard to go back and relive it.

Speaker 2: 15:47

Thank you for sharing that, and I think it's really hard to go back and relive it. Thank you for sharing that, and I think it's Thank you. I think it's important, you know, and obviously for your family and the other members of that community. Do you find, I know, it's painful and you mentioned, like art, being therapeutic Did you find this experience involving your family to be therapeutic in any way?

Speaker 3: 16:10

Yeah, it's been very healing for him. You know, like he said, it took him a long time it took over a decade to really just tell the story and I think it's been very healing for all of us and for other generations to come all of us and for other generations to come, because, like you said, a lot of the younger Hmong community they don't know what it took for our, our parents, our grandparents to come to America that's why these stories are important and that's why so they can hear and they can know, and they can understand and appreciate and help that perspective shift right.

Speaker 1: 16:44

So what are you going to say?

Speaker 4: 16:45

yes, yeah, it's when I do painting or drawing is just to keep my mind off of this past and and it's a good thing that I want to show what happened in my past in the painting. But lots of people don't get it, you know. They just look at it to say why it's blue, why it's red, it's like that and that's why I decided to put in the work.

Speaker 2: 17:10

I noticed in chapter nine, which is veiled, venom right. I feel like, from what I remember, that was the first time you talk about art being therapeutic and I was thinking about we were talking before, we were recording about all the things that were out in the jungle, like the leeches, the mosquitoes, the killer, the killer ants, the cobras, that your feet could never heal because they're in the water and you didn't have shoes this whole time, right?

Speaker 2: 17:33

no, no, yeah, you had no shoes for two years my god, I mean no shoes, and so you're talking about like lice and there's just nothing, was without like bugs and you were just I think you called it grueling just to keep these things, all these things off of you parasites and eating foods that you'd never tried and getting sick. And I remember you describing a scene where you would like draw in the dirt as kind of an outlet. That was the first time you mentioned art, and then at the end, after well, we won't spoil anything, he goes back to school and starts drawing or making art again. So I think another thing that struck me is that you weren't really allowed to talk. You had to either use sign language or whisper because you didn't want to be found Right. And so two things kind of stuck out to me with the art and then the stars. I think you said that at first you were mad at the stars because they had the audacity to shine.

Speaker 2: 18:31

Yes, you were going through what you were going through, which was just constant pain being lost from your parents. But then you came to terms with the stars and seems like admiration and you said even a star has the courage to shine over the recklessness it saw and I thought that's really beautiful. So the stars gave you hope.

Speaker 4: 18:51

In a way, yes, I was mad at the star. It's just like every time you sleep there at night, you look at there. You just, you know, just stare down at me. You're not going anywhere. That's a big space over there. Why don't you go anywhere?

Speaker 4: 19:06

And for me, I was living where groups of four older men right, they were not just typical men, they were just leaders, they were captains during the secret war, and they didn't teach me anything about life or talk to me.

Speaker 4: 19:22

When they want me to do something, they just tell me to do something, that's it and take care of their kids, right. And if they want me to be quiet, they just throw a rock at me and show a hand motion slash in the throat to tell me to be quiet. And so at night, when I sleep under the tree, I just look at the star and whatever the leaf allows me to see, and no matter what it is, whether I was crying, I open my eyes and still look down at me, that little shiny light at me. Whether I woke up in the middle of the night, that star is still shining at me. And so it became my hope that, yes, that's a little hope for me to live another day. I hope to see my parents, or you know, sleep under the night and hope to see that star again. That's how it is. Yes, become my hope. Yes.

Speaker 3: 20:25

Because how dare that star to shine for everyone to see why he had to hide? You know, and so I it. It gave him that hope. It was like a constant companion, the trees and the stars like, okay, they show up for me every day, I can show up for myself. All I gotta do is just get to the other side, where you are, and then it symbolized a new life yeah, I love that symbolism.

Speaker 1: 20:51

I think it's really that's so meaningful and it's constant and and anyone can relate to that, because anyone looks up and they can see the stars. Danielle, really, this resonates with her. She loves, she loves looking at the sky.

Speaker 2: 21:05

She, she's a self-proclaimed star nerd sky, nerd right I I, I do I, when I am stargazing, I just feel connected to something greater, and and then I think about all the people that have looked at them all the years before yes and what kind of questions they seek answers to. Because it's always been a direction right People, since the beginning of time, using the sky for direction, and so it gave you direction.

Speaker 4: 21:31

Yeah, it should give me direction and this is the turning point. That that's because the star you know, otherwise I'll be gone back in Laos or be killed or something like that, because that is the star that direct me to the other side.

Speaker 2: 21:47

That's what it is. I love the title. I love how the meaning it held for you in the book yes, it changed everything, because the star yes so we don't, like I said, we don't want to give away too much.

Speaker 2: 21:59

We know that you were traveling with those, with those men that you talked about, and you were separated from your family. So we kind of talked about how your experience with your family, how they raised you and just everything you'd been through, how did that kind of shape, how you raised your family, because you have five children, eight grandkids, yes, four grandkids. So how have you kind of blended how you were raised and how you have shaped your family?

Speaker 4: 22:27

Well, you know the journey. Just give me a little patient. Look at other people differently and try to tell my children the way. Look at other people. You know not to just look at the shade, the side, the color and put all your burden on that person for no reason, you know. Just look at the way you want people to look at you and I just tell them to be honest, maybe that person has somebody special, love that person and and you just control yourself, do the right thing and that's how the journey changed me and my family. Family is very important. That's it, yes.

Speaker 2: 23:13

Oh, I love that. That's really beautiful. So I don't want to give away, like I said, any parts of the book, but after two and a half years in the jungle, you talk about getting shoes. Finally.

Speaker 4: 23:25

Yes.

Speaker 2: 23:25

And having ice cream. You finally got to For the finally got to for the first time for the first time yes, I think about those joys that you had and I also want to go back in the book. You talk about at one point eating anything that crawls and like these leaves right and this rice that you had to like drink with water because it would like choke you but you finally found.

Speaker 2: 23:46

I love the imagery that you provide, the sugar cane feel and like. I felt like I was on this journey with you. Obviously didn't experience, but you're talking about the food that you're eating then how sick it made you and your swollen stomach and then you get like fresh bananas was it mango or papaya?

Speaker 2: 24:00

yes, like all of these foods, and I love how you explain the joy of like those experiences, and I feel like I know there's many takeaways from the book, but one of my takeaways was, wow, the deep appreciation for like just things that are necessities, not once right, like like shoes, food, shelter, a blanket, hugging your family at night and I don't know if that's you know direct, something you intended in the book, but it certainly, as a reader who hasn't been through something like that, is a big takeaway for me. Is, you know, and especially, I think, just in america, like, just appreciating those basic things for me.

Speaker 2: 24:43

I just like putting myself in your point of view. Wow, just those are like essential things. It really makes you thankful for the everyday having those things.

Speaker 3: 24:54

And that was like a great lesson that him and my grandparents and my mother, they've all taught us growing up, because, you know, we came from nothing and we didn't have a lot growing up, but we could find, you know, joy in just the smallest things, like having an open window and the breeze, and you know, just spending time with your family running outside, and so that's stuff now that I've learned to teach my kids, and like you, how you're in love with the sky and everything, like my daughter's, the same way She'll stop what she's doing. Just, mama, look at the sunset, you know.

Speaker 3: 25:27

So it's like stuff that I'm trying to instill in them, because society today we're so, you know, everything's based on consumerism and getting the best of everything and so I'm just really just trying to teach them the things that my dad and everybody has taught us, just to slow down and, you know, be grateful for the small things, yeah.

Speaker 4: 25:49

Yeah. So I look at my children today. Today they buy a very expensive shoe right only when one time and then buy another one and so I look at them, I just okay, they from a different generation, so so be it. But for me, I just try to be a simple person. I don't want a big house or a car or anything like that. I just want a simple life and humble to go. That's all it is. Yes.

Speaker 1: 26:24

I think that's great I do too. I do have to ask, though, that I think our listeners deserve to hear some little tidbits Like I'm going to ask these two questions. One question what was the flavor of ice cream that you had? And then the second question is what color were the shoes?

Speaker 4: 26:44

Ice cream. I'm not a chocolate, so anything I like, I still love ice cream. I can else I like it, I still love ice cream. You know, I can have it every day.

Speaker 1: 26:57

Me too, me too.

Speaker 3: 27:00

What was the first flavor that you tried?

Speaker 4: 27:04

It's vanilla.

Speaker 1: 27:06

That's not a bad start. That is a great start.

Speaker 4: 27:10

So back at the camp, we had a whole bunch of kids in the soccer field. There's only one soccer field in the camp and during the morning and nighttime it's all the big boy time. So they will come in and you're a little kid, you can't go, and then they will hit you with the ball. So many out there, you can't play. But in the middle of the noon all these big boys were sleeping. And that's what we did for the second game, for ice cream. The winner ate ice cream, the loser bought ice cream. So yes, and my first shoe was the white shoe. I was so happy about it and I didn't want any dirt on it.

Speaker 4: 27:51

Scratch on it for a long time, yes, and before I got the shoe, my aunt just put my feet up for her and she just dig all this splinter and all this. You know, inside the bottom that's water, yellow water is come out. So she's working on that for the whole for for the whole afternoon before I got the shoes on.

Speaker 2: 28:15

Yes, yeah, wow. So for our listeners, you got to read the book. It's all about his journey. He's in the jungle for two and a half years. After two and a half years, I mean we'll let you find the ending out. You got to read it. But at some point he does find his aunt cleans his feet up, buys him shoes. At that point you do make your way back, or you make your way back to your aunt and uncle and your cousins and then come to America in 1979?.

Speaker 4: 28:40

Yes, so when I get to the camp, my uncle was almost ready to come to the US and they just added my name to it, so they took me here.

Speaker 2: 28:52

Yeah, in November 1979, back in Rochester, minnesota yes, and you called the plane the Big Metal Bird.

Speaker 4: 29:02

Yes, yes.

Speaker 2: 29:03

Because you were like 12, right.

Speaker 4: 29:04

Right, the first time I got on an airplane too, so I just walked in on a huge metal thing.

Speaker 2: 29:10

That had to be a crazy experience, yes, coming from living in the jungle just trying to survive, and then you just put on a plane.

Speaker 4: 29:16

Right, I mean, it's crazy.

Speaker 3: 29:19

Somewhere. You don't even know where you're going. Yeah, in.

Speaker 2: 29:21

Minnesota, of all places. I mean it's in the winter. In November it was freezing.

Speaker 4: 29:26

Minus 24 degrees.

Speaker 2: 29:30

Because you were in Thailand right before this. Yes, it's hard in Thailand. Yes, From Thailand to Minnesota.

Speaker 1: 29:35

Talk about culture shock and weather shock. Culture shock, weather shock, right All the shocks Before I come here.

Speaker 4: 29:43

Right, I think I have a picture in that book I got. I received a free, a new sweater and a jacket and I wore that. I wore them all the way to Minnesota without taking off and imagine you walk in LA and California at that time. They were in short and t-shirt, but not me. I still got jacket on. People just look at me like crazy. But yes, I did.

Speaker 1: 30:13

Yeah, he was in Minnesota and then Then Wisconsin, and then he made his way Wisconsin for school yes, yeah, and then I love that you did graphic design, which that's really cool, that you went from working in art and loving art as a therapy to it becoming something that was a part of your career. And then you made your way to Northwest Arkansas. When did you come to Northwest Arkansas?

Speaker 4: 30:34

Let's go back a little bit. You know, when we lived in Minnesota for 20, some years, 23 years, and in early March 2000, my wife and I came down here and when we got here it was in the middle of 65 degrees, but back in Minnesota it was minus 10 degrees. So it drove me crazy about Northwest Arkansas and we came through here to Rogers, springdale and Fayville. Back then the town was smaller, right, but still diverse, and I remember Tiny Town and Sanditon were cattle field, yeah. And so the next day we drove over to Huntsville, huntsville, clifty and Eureka Spring and I just really like over there it reminds me, those high hill and deep slope remind me back home in Laos.

Speaker 4: 31:34

So I told my wife that I would be happy if I don't get up tomorrow, if you would find a job down here and we move down here. And so in 2002, she got a job offer right here in Washington region and then we just moved down here and I didn't want to work for a graphic artist anymore. I was just tired of the sales people with breathing on my neck talk about deadline, deadline. I just said, nope, that's enough for me. So I got myself a chicken farm over at Clifty and that's why we moved down here in 2002.

Speaker 2: 32:11

Yes, well, I mean, it's a good place for chicken farming.

Speaker 1: 32:13

Because, yes, great place for chicken farm I'm now thinking I wonder if I've driven past your chicken farm. I probably have so interesting because you're in gentry right?

Speaker 5: 32:23

well, he had it in clifty. Oh, he had it in clifty, so not you don't have.

Speaker 2: 32:27

You don't have a chicken farm anymore.

Speaker 1: 32:30

Okay, okay.

Speaker 2: 32:31

I want everyone to read the book to find out what happens between him and his parents. But I did want to know in the local community, have you felt a lot of, or how have they supported or lifted you up or gotten to know about your story?

Speaker 4: 32:48

I'm not sure they know about the monk here or my story. I'm not sure they know about the Hmong here or my story, but I've been with the Gentry Mayor. I've become part of the community park member so we have been talking about creating a new park right here in Gentry and that's one of my local involvement and I'm just happy to know all those board members right in.

Speaker 3: 33:17

Gentry and that's one of my local involvement and I'm just happy to know all those board members right in Gentry. Yeah, because he used to play, you know, tops a lot back home and so him and a bunch of his friends in the Hmong community would go to this local park in Gentry and play tops and the mayor approached them and was like, hey, how can we, you know, help, assist and you guys, you know enjoying this park a little bit more, so they're building, I think, a separate area for them for us yes, oh wow that's really awesome.

Speaker 1: 33:42

That really speaks volumes to this area too, and just the importance of that. You know, we bring so much culturally to where we live. You know, not just blending in with the culture, but we bring our own culture to that, and I think that that's you know. It's beautiful when you see that happen.

Speaker 4: 34:03

Yes, before we sold the chicken farm over Clifty, before we moved to Gentry, we knew that Northern Arkansas would be the next frontier for Arkansas and so we decided to move to Gentry. You're right, yes.

Speaker 1: 34:19

Gentry is.

Speaker 2: 34:20

And I'm in Centerton, so I used to be yes.

Speaker 1: 34:24

So do you want to ask about what I think? One of the things that we talk about and I know that this is kind of a hot topic right now is refugees in the United States. I would say that it's important to be a human and to love people, yes, people who are refugees, especially here in the United States. What advice, you know, would you give them and those who are maybe trying to even find a new place? To live, whether it's the US or whether it's somewhere else.

Speaker 4: 35:01

Yes, Well for me. I think Neil Diamond said it best when he said they come to America and this is the land of opportunity. If you are here, like me, you know, stay out of trouble, no drug, no alcohol, follow the law and push your children into school. And you know, never know. The opportunity is right there, no matter what, you are rich or you're poor, right here the sky is unlimited. You know. And just push your children in school, just like me, if I know that I'm going to be the last primate or the bottom of the primate here.

Speaker 4: 35:48

But if I had to, I did a virtual job just to push my children into school and hoping someday they become somebody. But at the end you have a doctor in the house and, for example, one of my friends. They are uneducated like me and they are nine children. They work hard. At the end of the day they are nine doctors in the house. And that's crazy. This opportunity. And you hear, you know, stay out of trouble, stay in school, you're going to be fine. And no matter what you're going to go for now, just stay out of trouble and be great.

Speaker 3: 36:32

Yeah, and you know, I know it's kind of like such dystopian times and things may feel really hard and scary. But I just think my advice for them is, if you don't challenge yourself and meet adversity, you just will never be able to meet your highest version of yourself. And you know, my dad is proof. If he can do it, you can do it too.

Speaker 1: 37:00

I think I need to add more adversity to my children's lives after this podcast. It does refine you. It really does. Yes, it truly does. I think you know like we've talked a little bit about how we've grown up and in parts of my life, you know, my parents didn't have a lot of money growing up either, and so we didn't, you know, we didn't have the things like I grew up at the time when, like guest jeans were like a big deal, I didn't have a pair of guest jeans. I didn't get to get the brand name clothes like that just wasn't a part of my experience growing up and it definitely affected me.

Speaker 1: 37:32

I think that there is, from a personal standpoint. There is such a oh man. It's hard not to give our kids everything. It really is, because I want to give them every single thing that I didn't have and I sometimes have to stop myself and say, no, it's okay that they don't have everything you know, and it's okay for them to open a window and breathe the fresh breath of air, look at the stars, look at the sunset, look at things that aren't, you know, aren't consumer driven. But yeah, why don't you tell us a little bit, since we are a podcast called the People of Northwest Arkansas. We love to hear why people love this area, and so tell us a little bit about what you like about Northwest Arkansas and why you like to call it home.

Speaker 4: 38:16

Well, the little town, but it's feel like a country. That's for me. I like a little bit outside of town and Arkansas it's really Northwest Arkansas. Here this is really nice. It's not too hot, it's not too cold. The winter here it's only like two months, and the people around here it's really nice. Whether they see you on the dirt road or small road, they will just wait at you and that's why I love it here and I like it here. It's good for a small grown family and I like it here and I thought it's good for a small growing family and it's great here.

Speaker 2: 38:56

You know, I've noticed the waving too.

Speaker 3: 38:58

Yes, maybe it's a southern thing, I don't know.

Speaker 2: 39:00

Everyone waves, but you go to the north and you make eye contact or wave, People think you're going to rob them or something.

Speaker 1: 39:08

They jerk back. Same in California, though that's where I grew up, and so, coming to arkansas, definitely people are a lot more friendly here. But community is also what you make it. You know like you're part of it, and I'm excited to see what happens next for you with this book. I'm excited to see, I like, have so many people I want to introduce you to and other podcasts that I want to encourage to have you on their show as well.

Speaker 2: 39:33

You, you just wrote it in January. Yes, and I think this is new.

Speaker 1: 39:37

We're just going to help you with your press tour and like. This is good, but we are very inspired by your story and we are so thankful that you came on the show and we really appreciate it. I know that Danielle has been so excited about this episode.

Speaker 2: 39:53

And I honestly just feel really honored to meet you both and that you shared something so personal and revisited something you know that was hard to revisit. So thank you for sharing that and for making time today and please share how our listeners can and we'll link the book as well it's. You can go on Spotify A Star on the Other Side do audio. I did audio book. You need to go, you know, listen on the go, but share that where they can find the book and how they can buy it.

Speaker 3: 40:23

You can purchase your preferred platform on astarontheothersidecom. And you can also follow him on his Facebook social media. And you can also follow him on his Facebook social media. It's Thua T-O-U-A, tony Lee, and his Instagram is Thua T-O-U-A dot Tony dot Lee Love it.

Speaker 2: 40:43

Awesome. So I wanted to close with my favorite quote from the entire book, and it's towards the end of the book and he says no matter how refined someone may or may not appear, judge not, because you never know what it took for that person to be placed in front of you I love that I have goosebumps and I also need to hug you, I know, I hope I don't cry.

Speaker 4: 41:05

I'm over here like thank you guys, so much thank you, hey.

Speaker 2: 41:09

Thanks so much for listening today. If you liked what you heard, please consider subscribing to the podcast so you never miss an episode. You can also follow us on Instagram at people of NWA. Thanks so much.

Speaker 5: 41:18

People of Northwest Arkansas with the two Daniels Produced by me, brock Short of Brock Entertainment. Please rate, review and like us on any podcast platform where you listen. For more information about today's guests and the show, please check the show notes. Thanks for listening.