Masks, Identity, And Meeting Cody Bryan

SPEAKER_03 0:11

Hey Danielle, how are you feeling today? I feel pretty good. Do you feel like yourself? What do you mean? Well, I mean, do you feel like who you are is who you are? You're not an imposter. Ooh, that's a tough one.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

It depends on the day.

SPEAKER_03 0:24

It depends on the day.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

If the mask, are you asking if the mask is on or off? On or off. Today the mask is off. Oh, very nice. When I'm with you, I don't have the mask. Yeah, yeah. I know what you mean though.

SPEAKER_03 0:35

For sure. Well, I'm really excited about our guest today. His name is Cody Bryan. And I met him actually through Instagram. I was just like scrolling and a video of his popped up and it just resonated. And it was all about imposter syndrome. And I was like, who is this guy? This is a great video. And I go and I look at his profile and I'm like, wait, he's in Northwest Arkansas. Like, what are the odds of that? And I was like, look at the algorithm pointing us into people that are in our community, which is really great. And so I just reached out to him and got to know him, had coffee with him, and the rest is history. And so now he's sitting here in our studio and we're going to talk about his journey into therapy and helping people with imposter syndrome. So welcome, Cody.

SPEAKER_06 1:19

Yeah. Glad to be here. It's exciting.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

It's a topic I'm really interested in because I think a lot of high-functioning people suffer from this or people with people-pleasing tendency, like myself.

SPEAKER_03 1:33

Never.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Or anxiety. Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Yeah. So

From Oklahoma City To Northwest Arkansas

SPEAKER_01 1:37

first we like to ask how you came to the area. Are you from here or are you a transplant?

SPEAKER_06 1:41

I am a transplant. I'm from Oklahoma City. So spent my first 30 years of life there. And I like to tell people I am not a fair weather Oklahoma City Thunder fan. I was a fan when they were terrible, when they were good. Now they're really good. So I gotta get that out of the way out of my system. But my so my wife is from here. That's how the connection happened. We actually met in college in Oklahoma. And so I'd started coming here to meet her family, hang out with her family since like 2010. Um so I've even I've gotten to see quite a bit of the growth. But it's like one of those funny things I would I would always tell, and my wife can uh validate this. Like I was I was like, I like this area, but I never want to live here. Like I want to I want to be in Oklahoma City, probably a lifer there, and then as life has it, things change and and here I am now, a a a loving NWA member. So yeah. And we we moved here in 2019, so working on our seventh year.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

Yeah. Do you know where Hydro is?

SPEAKER_06 2:42

Ooh, Hydro, no.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

It's like it's outside of I have family from Oklahoma City and then out in like Hydro. And anyway, my grandma used to tell a story about how she got married in Oklahoma City. She was like a farm girl and met my grandfather. He was in the Air Force, he'd just come back, I think from Korea. And they waited, they were scared that her parents would say no. So they waited for the the pastor to come back from his lunch break in the square. And then they as soon as he got back, they got married. She loves to tell that story.

SPEAKER_03 3:13

That's a great story.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

I know. And she said all they had was like a guitar and a toaster, like in their first little apartment in downtown Oklahoma City.

SPEAKER_06 3:19

That is literally all you need.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

A toaster and a guitar. I guess.

SPEAKER_06 3:23

Especially the guitar. You can even forget the toaster. Yeah, right. You don't even need the toaster.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

But anyway, I I love Oklahoma City. It's it's a great place. I love to go there any chance I get.

SPEAKER_06 3:31

It's fun.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Yeah. But we're glad you're here.

SPEAKER_06 3:34

Yeah, no, I really love this area. It's it's an amazing place to grow a family. I got a six and two-year-old, so they love it. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 3:42

That's really awesome. So you brought you came to Northwest Arkansas to for for what? Just to move with your wife? Like, were you a trailing spouse, or did you come to do something else?

SPEAKER_06 3:53

Okay.

Burnout Forces A Big Career Pivot

SPEAKER_06 3:54

So the short of that story is, and it's very much ties into my own experience with imposter syndrome. About 2016, 2017, just a little bit of a backstory. My imposter syndrome kind of hit its peak, like heightened experience with the burnout. I think you mentioned the people pleasing. That was that was very strong in me. And so I I started to like notice I had like the shift has to happen. I didn't know what the shift was. I didn't know what needed to happen. But and at that time I was in ministry, so I've always been in the helping professions, and I knew I didn't want to leave ministry, or I didn't want to leave the helping professions. But I at the time I didn't know I needed to leave ministry. And we can get into that in a little bit, but so I kind of ri rode the wave of burnout for about two years, two or almost three years. It's crazy. And then I was like, I I I I literally have to make a big shift or something else is gonna happen. I don't know what that other thing is gonna be. And it all coincided with my daughter being born. So we moved up here for a again, it was a ministry job. I was like, I just I'm gonna stay in the ministry because at least I have something I know, but I need to shift, I guess, my context. And so we moved up here with uh a three-week-old girl. No, don't recommend moving with newborns. And then, yeah, as as anybody who's ever moved knows it takes several months to kind of get your you know, the ground under your feet, and then if you look at the timeline, that's like right when COVID started to hit like I was just like, what is happening? Yeah, literally the world's falling apart, and I feel like I'm falling apart. And so I rode that wave for about a year in the ministry, and then like a lot of people in COVID, that was kind of like a quote unquote gift to kind of reassess everything. And so I was like, you know what? I I really like helping people, but I don't think this is the thing for me. I've been doing too many things in this area, in this area, I mean ministry. So yeah, took the big shift there to become a therapist. So I'm trying to hit like the the 50,000 foot view, but the 50,000 to it, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 6:00

Obviously, yeah. No, that's really great. And so then you decided to go to school go back to school, I'm assuming, and then become a therapist. Nope, I don't know I'm an unlicensed therapist. I'm super fun.

SPEAKER_06 6:13

Yeah, so yeah, we're we're kind of crazy people, my my family. It's like, okay, well, I'll go back to school, full-time grad student, full-time stay-at-home dad. My wife, amazing, pivoted back into she's a nurse, so she went back into the hospital setting, and then we just hammered it out. And it was it was really fun, maybe the right word, I don't know. It was an interesting experience going through that and seeing some of the layers that overlap in the helping worlds with ministry and and therapy, but obviously very different as well. So, yeah, we kind of just grinded it, grinded it out in two years, which is a pretty short amount of time for uh for a master's and yeah, been in my own practice mostly since 2023.

Defining Imposter Syndrome And The Fear

SPEAKER_06 6:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:59

So, what made you decide to focus on imposter syndrome? How did you get there?

SPEAKER_06 7:04

That's a good question. Well, I mentioned the peak was in like 2016, 2017. Would it be okay to like go back?

SPEAKER_03 7:12

I love going back. You want to go back for a second? She always likes to go back.

SPEAKER_06 7:16

This is like my favorite book.

SPEAKER_03 7:17

I I do like to go back.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Yeah, no, because she's always like, take a why. No, I do like to go back. I want to hear the why. Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 7:25

Well, I I think it's helpful to start where like it actually originated. And and a lot of people will experience imposter syndrome, which may be helpful to give a bit of a definition. Uh and there's a lot of ways of defining it, but I I like the definition that kind of says this is a an experience of like fear, fear of being exposed, a fear of being f found out, often very much like in a very soon amount of time. That's not a very great way of saying that, but like it's you're on the verge of always being found out, is what I'm trying to say. As an intellectual fraud, as like you don't have enough in you, you're you're not good enough to do the thing, and and that's usually happening despite the evidence of the contrary. Like you're usually a very successful person, a very high achiever, and yet you're feeling like a phony. Right. And so, like a lot of people have may experienced it in college, and that was my my experience. I remember I think it was like 2007, so it's almost like a perfect ten years from when it started, me first recognizing it to when it hit its peak, and then another 10 years of like dismantling it and growing and healing from it. But I remember just sitting, or I wasn't sitting, I was standing in the cafeteria of my college, which it felt like there were thousands of people in the room, but it was probably like 70. You know, all these like tables of people eating their lunches, and I was just sitting there like clutching like my life depended on it on the little cafeteria tray. And this thought just popped in my head. I'm like, I don't belong here. I like I don't really belong here. Like, yeah, I made the grades, I got literally got approved or accepted into the college, but I I'm different, you know, and it's only a matter of time. Again, I'm on this verge of being found out not just by peers, because that's what it kind of did, is it activated like a very extreme case of social anxiety, thinking like all these peers, these 70 or whatever people in the room are like gonna be staring at me and like, what are you doing here, you know? And not just them, it would be like my supervisors, like the the people that are in literally in charge of giving me a degree, you know, my professors are gonna be like, Why are you here? And so that and then that just started to grow and and kept up with me through college, and then like I said, it peaked in like 2016-2017 with a very severe case of burnout, which I know that's kind of a buzzy word. We talk a lot about it, talk about it a lot, and but it's real, but it's real, yeah. It really is real, and it and it can it can be detrimental. Like I I remember trying to explain to a friend over a coffee, like I I don't feel like myself anymore. I feel like every sound, every color, every taste is like dull. Like like it was like everything got lacroified, if you know what I'm trying to say.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

Like Yeah, yeah, everything's been water dull. All the senses are turned, you know, from if it was zero to ten, it sounded like a zero. Like you're not experiencing.

SPEAKER_06 10:25

It's like I know, I know what that sound is, but I don't really I can't feel it, you know. I know what that taste is, but I can't experience it. And so and my friend who really you know, great friend, but he didn't really understand, he's like, Oh, that sounds like a song. Like you should put that in a song, kind of dismissing, like, and again, I'm not trying to knock him, but I'm like, I don't think I can articulate really and so I say all that to say I had been trying to earn my worth, trying to prove myself, trying to prove that it did belong for like a decade. And so that's more or less why I got into this work with other people, because I love it's it's kind of weird to say, like I love the people that it affects because it's it's usually creatives, you know, musicians, artists, entrepreneurs, but really it can be anybody. It can be a CEO of a company, but it also can be a Broadway performer, like it it's a very large spectrum.

SPEAKER_03 11:16

So yeah, absolutely. For sure it is, you know.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

So you've talked about what it feels like. What

Childhood Criticism, Praise, And Moving Goalposts

SPEAKER_01 11:23

inherently causes us to feel this way? Is it a combination of outside, you know, things happening to us, or is it a hundred percent all in our heads?

SPEAKER_06 11:35

Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

Or is it a combination?

SPEAKER_06 11:37

I mean I mean the unsatisfying answer is probably it's a combination. Yeah, okay. For some reason that reminded me of like, this isn't just self-doubt. And actually, I've heard recently a couple people, not influential people, you know, say that like, oh, imposter syndrome is a good thing because it keeps you humble. And I'm like, no, that's just self-doubt. Like, this is a complex kind of self-doubt that and by that I mean like it has probably surfaced from many different things, different contexts. But more or less it's it does tend to show up pretty early in people, like if they have like a highly critical upbringing, you know, like their their home environment is one in such that they essentially like learn, oh, I it's probably safer to be impressive than to be authentic. Like it's probably very much more a safe bet to perform and and become impressive than to be fully myself. And so whether that's from mom's or dad's criticism or or it could go the other extreme, it could be like they're really doting and they're really like high praise, like you can do everything and anything, you know.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

Yeah, and so they want to continue to yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_06 12:44

But I would say it's that, but then you know, for whatever reason, high achievers are very much driven, they're goal-oriented people, and so the goal moves a lot. When you reach the goal, you kind of become a victim of your own victory there, like your victim of your own success. You're like, okay, now now the bar's higher, and I don't know if I have enough in me to do the next leg of this journey. So does that answer the question? I don't know. Yeah, no, that's a great answer.

SPEAKER_03 13:10

Yeah, I think it resonates a lot too, and just things I'm like, oh man, my childhood. I remember growing up, I was a very much a little bit of a perfectionist, not so much anymore. Late all the time now. You were early today. It was early today. High five. But you know, like I think about like even in high school, like I was I was deemed a goody two shoes, like for sure. And I think that just home life mixed with just just a desire to constantly perform was a big part of my upbringing and just spilled over into my adult life significantly. Now I just say, ah, whatever. No, just kidding, I still deal with it.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

I can see what you what you know, what you're saying about people that are artists or performer or even entrepreneurs, because I know for me, when anytime I have felt imposter syndrome, it was never, it was never when I had was comfortable in a roller position at work or something that I had done for a while, and I felt like, okay, I'm the I'm the senior in this world and people are coming to me for help. It was always when I got promoted or when I was just going out to work for myself, you know, starting our own business. And anytime I was doing that and you step into a new world, it, you know, it does. I feel like there is a touch of that because you're so green in the business. Yeah. And so that's when I have felt it personally. And I have had those moments where I'm like, oh my gosh, what like especially if you're putting as soon as you put yourself out there, or let's say you're nominated for award for your podcast, and you think, oh my gosh, all these other podcasts are so good. What am I doing here? Should we even so like I've experienced that because when you're putting your I mean, you're basically showing who you are and what you do. And it I think it's the fear of scrutiny or people criticizing you for sure. Because then you equivocate or you you basically say, like, okay, well, whatever that is is my worth, right? And you have to, I feel like you have to sever. That's my own assessment of my feelings when I felt the imposter syndrome. And I don't know why you want that. We feel like we need the validation from others. But Danielle's been great because we're like, oh, we love what we do. And so, so getting into that, we don't want you to give away too much info because you know, people need to come see therapy with you. But

Say It Out Loud Without Shame

SPEAKER_01 15:33

what are right, what are some top tips that people could take away from listening to this when they start to maybe they are taking a chance on a new business or a new role, or even becoming a parent can feel a little bit, you know, you can feel a little bit of that. Like am I qualified to this? Oh, yeah. So what are some maybe just little tips people could take away to kind of start to cope with that?

SPEAKER_06 15:57

It's a great question. I'm so glad you brought up the parenting thing because that's that highlights like this is not just a professional experience. It can it can be in the personal realm as well. Um and uh yeah, one one of the things I think is so fascinating about imposter syndrome or imposter phenomenon, whatever you want to call it, is that like I think the research shows like around 70% of people in the entire globe will have experienced it at some point in their life.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

Wow.

SPEAKER_06 16:22

And that has been tested in different cultures, and so it's like it's a pretty strong indicator. So it's like that's a lot of people. That's like the majority of people who are gonna experience this and yet we don't talk about it enough. Like at least I don't think so. And so I think that's one of the first things is to get it out. There's something really weird about it's not really weird, but like I it just seems weird about getting things out that the brain starts to listen to that. The brain, you know, at the end of the day, I think I mentioned wants to keep you safe, or you know, that's that's why people will opt to be impressive rather than authentic because it's perhaps perhaps safer. The brain at the end of the day, that's if it could do only one job for the rest of its life at the expense of nearly everything else, it's to keep you safe.

SPEAKER_01 17:07

Self-preservation.

SPEAKER_06 17:08

Yeah, and it makes sense. So on that note, our brains are constantly, constantly listening to how we talk about ourselves. But we don't realize how how much we are actually talking to ourselves and about ourselves. You know, whether that's in just an internal dialogue, internal self-talk. So I think it it sounds so simple, but like literally just saying some things out loud, whether that's to a friend or or even like in the car to yourself, to just kind of normalize, like, okay, I'm not I'm not crazy or I'm not like broken. I just I'm struggling. I have this this new things, I'm very green in this thing, and it's okay. I think that's one of the most powerful things to do is to get it out. And I think that can in turn really help someone accept that bit of reality for what it is, you know. And I think in a lot of ways, that's a good first step is accepting, okay, this is this is me right now. Like, but then I think pivoting back to the research is like I'm not alone. Like, there's probably way more people that I even know or notice that have it as well in them.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

But they're just not talking about it. Yeah, no one and I get it.

SPEAKER_06 18:16

No one wants to like say, Hey, I I don't know what I'm doing, or like I don't feel like I know what I'm doing.

unknown 18:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 18:22

And I think it also, you know, like you mentioned, the criticism could come your way. But also in love, people will will tend to like try to you know, try to encourage you or like help you see like what are you talking about? Like you you do all these amazing things, you've come so far, how could you, you know, kind of what that can do is kind of put shame into you a little bit. Oh man, I I don't accept my own success. What's wrong with me, you know? So anyway, that's that's one thing I'd say to that.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

No, I think that's a good point because I've learned this through parenting only kind of in recent years. Sometimes when my kids want to talk about things that have that's on their mind or that they need to hash out. I used to try to want to solve it or like just yeah, like you're saying, lots of positive, but I've learned that that did not elicit the response that I had intended. You were so right, it kind of made them shut down a bit. So I guess so now I just listen. I've practiced my active listening as a parent and it has improved so much more. Sometimes we just want to be heard instead of someone either fixing it or telling you that you're great. You're like, well, I know you think I'm great because you love me and like I love that about yeah, you know, you love you need that support, but sometimes you just want to get it out.

SPEAKER_03 19:42

Yeah, sometimes I like to ask my kids or especially my daughter follow-up questions, you know, like, well, how did that make you feel? Like, and how what are you thinking about right now in that situation? And like just asking her so she can feel safe to talk about it and get it out. And so, especially, you know, I know your kids are a little younger, and so when they get older, yeah, get ready. A lot comes out all of the time. But I think I think that this is good to talk about, and I think it's great that you're talking about it. And I I feel like I've posted on multiple of your videos where I'm like, are you inside my head right now? Like, are you in my head? Like, chop it. And but it it it's so real, you know, it really is. And I think maybe why it resonates with me a lot right now is because of what I'm walking through with starting a magazine, even just the podcast. Sometimes it's like, oh my goodness, what you know, like winning awards and getting recognition for what we're doing. It's it's weird. It's really weird.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

It's like the higher the expectations, right, the more pressure you feel to perform produce a great product.

SPEAKER_03 20:55

But I'm also proud of us too for making the decision to take a break. You know, like we took a break when we needed a break this winter, and yes, it was let's talk about burnout because you brought up burnout.

Burnout As Depression, Anxiety, And Identity

SPEAKER_01 21:09

And yes, I know personally parent burnout is the artist burnout. It it is it's tough because you're so right. It's hard to, if you haven't poured back into your own cup, you can't really give, there's not much to give, right? At the end of the day. Yeah. So, you know, they say it takes a village, but in American society, we often do operate more alone than many other cultures. And I do think Northwest Arkansas is a great community for support and other parents and networks. And I also think like the churches that I've attended are great for connecting mothers and helping. But talk about burnout because oftentimes people can feel kind of alone or in their heads about certain things when they're burnt out, but you're surrounded by so many people. So, what let's talk about? Talk about what burnout actually is, and then kind of maybe walk us through if you don't mind sharing what you did to kind of get yourself out of that space or what you did for yourself that helped you flourish again.

SPEAKER_06 22:45

That's a good word. Yeah. Burnout. No pressure.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Yeah, no pressure.

SPEAKER_06 22:52

Well, I I'm trying to I try to remember if it actually has made its way into like the clinical side, like in diagnosing. I can't remember or not. But I think it's talked about enough that it it's it's close if it hasn't already got into one of our diagnostic manuals. And that's yeah, it usually does stem from very extreme levels of depression and or anxiety that have been you know uh someone has been carrying for so long that it's become unmanageable and it's starting to spill over into multiple spheres of their life, right? So it could start in professional and then now it has started to gobble up personal. And you know, I think that's when we as clinicians or therapists start to say, hey, that that probably is something you need to attend to because it has now started to impede almost every area of your life. It's starting to creep everywhere, like you know. So that I think, yeah, I think it again, somewhat similar to imposter syndrome, it it's kind of sometimes it's really hard to just name where it comes from, and sometimes it's not even helpful to try to name where it's come from.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

It's just like sleep deprivation was mine, exactly.

SPEAKER_06 23:59

It could be like something so ranting.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

When you're not sleeping for years and you know, just over stimulation, yeah, and yeah, I think not sleeping could and so you know, sleep deprivation. It was a big part of my burnout where you're just like, I just have no more gas in the tank. You know what I mean? Dinner, I have to make dinner again.

SPEAKER_03 24:20

Yeah, well, I think yeah, yeah, for me it was not saying no to people, yeah, yes, or to like opportunities and things like spreading your tooth thin. Oh, so thin. Like so spread did way too much. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 24:33

It's a big one. Yeah, I think that's similar to mine as well. Yeah, you you you want to please people. Like it's it's great. It's great to like in you know, see someone happy and satisfied because you helped them or join their project or something, and then you're you're just constantly giving yourself away and never filling your own cup back.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

But uh and you had to fill it not only, I think like physically you need the sleep, emotionally, you need the connection, but also I feel like for me there was a spiritual side too. Like, do you feel like it's multifaceted, right?

SPEAKER_06 25:02

100%. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

So to get yourself out of that burnout state, did you start to kind of just make time for yourself? Was that part of it?

SPEAKER_03 25:10

I'd laugh because like we had a seven-week more. Yeah, I know. Oh, that was when you moved here. Maybe burnout happened before then.

SPEAKER_06 25:17

It like yeah, it was overlapped. It yeah, it overlapped for sure. And then I think COVID was weird because the particular church I was at like felt like we were doing more than we needed to do during this time that sh, you know, in a lot of ways should have been like a let's pause, like nut reflection. Yeah, and I started to just do it on my own, like, even though it wasn't really a thing everyone was necessarily doing, and so yeah, I think it would became a really helpful time to be like, why is my meaning making so tied to externals, you know? And I knew all the the kind of cheesy or cliche things of like I have intrinsic value. And I mean it's not it's not cheesy, that's a good thing to say. But I knew it. That's the point, is like I knew on a intellectual level that I had inherent worth, that like literally nothing I could do or not do in this world would influence my value. But I didn't believe it, it hadn't become internalized, and that's that's like the whole shtick with imposter syndrome, including burnout, is that like we don't internalize our our success. And and uh yeah, when you don't do that, then as it was for me and a lot of burnout experiencers is your identity, you have like kind of an identity crisis. Yeah. Like, who am I?

SPEAKER_01 26:32

Right. So do you think kind of the tide that's been turning lately with technology where people are going more analog,

Social Media Comparison And Information Overload

SPEAKER_01 26:40

home phones are coming back, people are starting to people are starting to see value and slowing down and having just a no tech time, or do you feel like that pausing and that reflecting is beneficial? I mean, and because I mean there's just a lot when we're just connected in all the time. It's almost like I've heard that we're not wired to receive the amount of information that we receive. Do you think that's kind of part of it too? The imposter syndrome is seeing all these you think in what we see is not reality, right?

SPEAKER_03 27:14

A resounding yes.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

Yeah. Do you think that's a big part of it too? Is seeing, oh, they're doing this, doing that. Why am I not doing that?

SPEAKER_06 27:22

Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:23

I mean, that's so much. Yeah, sorry.

SPEAKER_06 27:26

I can see your wheel spinning. Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

It sounds easy, but I feel like everyone still connects in, right? Like we say, oh, we it's like we know the poison, but we still drink it. Do you know what it is? Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_06 27:36

Well, yeah. Yeah, yes. That's why I don't know if this really answers that, but like that's why education or fear aren't great motivators of people. Like inspiration is. And yeah, you can and that's what makes it messy, is online can you can gain inspiration. I think I've uh met some of the most inspiring people via online.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 27:57

But then it yeah, it's that double-edged sword, it comes with all of the comparisons, comparison traps that you can muster, you know, for one person in their whole lifetime. And I I love that what you said about like we're not really wired for this much uh inform. I always hear like the quote of the stat and I always forget it. But it's like just a hundred years ago, if if that people received I'm gonna make up a number so whoever's listening is gonna be like this guy doesn't know anything. Like it seems like it was like they would receive five bits of information in a week versus our like five hundred in a day. And I don't know, I don't think the number really matters. It does it does compute, right?

SPEAKER_03 28:36

Right.

SPEAKER_06 28:37

So pun intended. Like it does make sense. We're we're so inundated. And if you're a high achiever, you're constantly looking for, oh, okay, is that is that what I need to do to level up? Is that what I need to become to become valuable? And uh it's such a tricky beast though, because I again I don't I don't like to prescribe anything necessarily because I would never say like, oh yeah, you need to get offline unless it was like like you really need to get off.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

Right, like you were taking you weren't taking care of yourself or your literally playing a video game for tour.

SPEAKER_03 29:07

You were not taking showers or brushing your teeth or maybe we should kind of do something different.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

I like I like the advice you're giving. And I know for me personally, when I take the time for myself, whether it's creating more structure in my life as far as like making time for myself, whether it's working out or the elusive massage that I get like once a quarter. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_06 29:35

Like things or massage elusive, or is no, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 29:39

It's not different. No, no, no. I just mean like I mean like getting a massage. Not oh yeah, we can cut that one out. And like just taking a walk or connecting, just getting outside and honestly just being around people because I feel like not everyone is different online as they are. Like some people really are themselves online, but sometimes just being face to face with people is is nice, right? You get the real scoop of what's going on. The real scoop. The real scoop. So no, I think that's I think that's all good advice. And then you we've talked a lot about high achievers. Can we kind of dive in real quick about you know, you because you mentioned some people think imposter syndrome can kind of motivate.

Healthy Ambition With Fewer Realistic Goals

SPEAKER_01 30:24

So what's the difference between like an over someone who's over functioning versus like a healthy ambition? Oh man.

SPEAKER_06 30:33

Yeah. I think I heard recently like overachiever is someone who doesn't set realistic goals or very clear outcomes. And so then they're always constantly in this state of like fight or flight because they're they're overestimating. Like literally, they're like, I'm gonna do 30 things in one week, you know, and they're all like high level things. Whereas like a high achiever is whether through experience of being that and then coming on the other side, or just generally more like realistic. They're like, okay, I can do one thing really well today versus the 30 that I think I need to do today, which to be transparent, I'm I usually tend to toward the 30, I'm like, oh, I'm gonna do all these. And then yeah, so I think what was your question? Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 31:17

Exactly. No, exactly. Yeah, no, I think you answered it. Yeah, it's being more realistic because I feel like a lot of times our eyes are bigger than our appetite, or like we we take on way more than we can actually consume, than we can actually get to. Yeah, you can't, yes, right? Oh yeah. We just put too much on our plate and then we can't finish it. Oh yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 31:40

I was gonna say, like, yeah, that's if you can do like I don't know why the word simplicity comes to mind. I think that's more personally how I engage with it, and have come on this other side of it, like enjoying truly less is more. You know, it's like in music. I'm a I'm a musician, so I think that's why it vibes with me is like less genuine, genuinely and generally is more when you can let the song breathe, and you know, you you hit three notes instead of thirty. Like, yeah, it's cool you can riff and play all these things like really fast and complex, but that's a lot. Yeah, and are you gonna sustain that? No, probably not.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

What kind of music do you like to play? I know that's off topic. Nice. I knew I knew I was waiting for that. But don't worry, I have a whole bunch of well, we don't have too much time, but I will ask about music because I actually will judge a person.

SPEAKER_03 32:31

If you were from Texas, their favorite music on a tangent.

unknown 32:34

No.

SPEAKER_06 32:35

I mean, we did go off on the Oklahoma one, so okay, so like like genre of music to personally play, it's it's like I don't even know what what is okay. So I have like two favorite bands, and they're very different from each other, and they're my favorite because of just when I found them in at the time in my life, how they helped me through some hard things, and and I just in general I love their mu musicality, but it's it's Radiohead and Dave Matthews, like completely different animals.

SPEAKER_01 33:03

Radiohead's my favorite. Is it really? Yeah. Well, actually, when you were talking about what am I doing here, it made me think of the lyrics of creep for this moment.

SPEAKER_03 33:11

Oh, I'm a weirdo, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:13

No, not you. I just you said, What am I doing here? I don't belong here. And those are literally the lyrics of creep. And it made me think of when they played on MTV's spring break a long time ago. Everyone was so excited and like dancing, and they came in and like all black and sang creep, and everyone's vibe just got so like wand wand. I was like, I love Radio Head.

SPEAKER_06 33:33

Yeah, when they played in this on SNL and they did the national their national anthem song, it's called that sounds like way ahead of its time and what's happening.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

Yes. No, I love Radio Head. Now you've officially gotten the gold stamp from me because you are in.

SPEAKER_03 33:52

Yeah, you are in Radio Head is my number one of the. Even deeper inner circle now.

SPEAKER_01 33:56

Yeah. I mean, they're the one band I would travel far and wide to go see, and I've heard that they are gonna do. I can't remember how many shows they said in 2027, but they only toured in Europe the last year, which was a bummer.

SPEAKER_03 34:09

You're hoping they come here, don't you?

SPEAKER_01 34:10

Yeah, I'll drop everything, I'll fly anywhere. Domestic.

SPEAKER_03 34:14

Doodle, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

Domestic. I can't really leave my kids and go internationally.

SPEAKER_03 34:16

So I want to go to a radiohead concept.

SPEAKER_01 34:18

So I've cried with you. I've only been oh with you. I've been three times. We are going to go see Deathcast. ACL. Okay. Oh, yeah. ACL.

SPEAKER_03 34:28

Momentary, right?

SPEAKER_04 34:28

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 34:29

I cried during High and Dry. There was not a dry eye in that room when they played that song. It was just so good. Anyway.

SPEAKER_03 34:36

I love your passion for music.

unknown 34:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 34:38

You and Brown. Okay, well, then I have a very real music. Real question for you. Favorite Radiohead album? I know this is tough.

SPEAKER_06 34:46

Oh, it's easy. Well, it's easy because I'm basing it on subjectivity. It's in Rainbows.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Really?

SPEAKER_06 34:53

Because of the time it came out, it was like a freshman in college.

SPEAKER_01 34:56

It's a great album.

SPEAKER_06 34:58

I know objectively people will put Okay Computer. Yeah, okay computer over. And I get it. Like it's that is literally a flawless album.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

It is flawless. I think it was named like top five. It was in the top five greatest rock albums of all time.

SPEAKER_06 35:10

It has to be.

SPEAKER_01 35:11

I think it was like number two or three. Yeah. No, seriously.

SPEAKER_06 35:14

Yeah. But I think in Rainbows, that's the name of it, right? I'm really bad with remembering titles, but I think it they released that in like 07 and it was like free, or like you paid what you could for it. And I was a broke college kid starting to really struggle with imposter syndrome. And I was like, these guys are like morose and but also like hopeful in a weird way. And I love it. Like they're this weird paradox of a band. And so I I just like played that on repeat in the college. I was at had like maybe three other people who enjoyed them.

SPEAKER_01 35:44

I've often contemplated doing a podcast solely on Radiohead music. I could literally talk about Radiohead and producers giving us the time. I could literally talk about Radiohead for like I mean, every day probably. I could get in to dive into every song. When my kids were babies, I had the rockaby baby radiohead.

SPEAKER_03 36:02

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:04

So they'll hear like no surprises, and they'll be like, I remember this song. I'm like, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:09

Oh my gosh. Oh, yeah. Those were fun, those rock baby.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

I know the rockaby baby, like Metallica.

SPEAKER_03 36:14

So fun. They're like tunes for babies.

SPEAKER_06 36:18

I'm like, why don't I have those?

SPEAKER_01 36:20

Dave Dave Matthews, come on. Yeah. I saw him with Tim Reynolds, and it was one of the best concerts I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_06 36:27

He is yeah, his band is on the musicality level is unmatched. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:32

My kids get really tired of hearing it. Okay, so I know we don't have too much more time.

SPEAKER_03 36:41

Not a ton of time, but kind of in the last few minutes, tell us kind of walk through what someone could expect

Counseling Style, Finding Cody, And Closing

SPEAKER_03 36:48

from your practice. Like, what do you focus on? You say you don't diagnose, what like so what does that mean?

SPEAKER_06 36:55

Yeah. Um good question. What can someone expect? Well, how do I put this in a nutshell?

SPEAKER_03 37:01

Or how can you help people? How do you how do you help people best? Worst.

SPEAKER_06 37:06

Oh, nutshell. No.

SPEAKER_03 37:09

I I think on the spot.

SPEAKER_06 37:11

Go. No, I think people can expect, like, I am gonna try my darndest to help someone articulate what it is they want in their life and how to create that much more than what they don't want and how to remove that.

SPEAKER_01 37:25

Ooh. That's really good.

SPEAKER_06 37:27

And it's not that I don't dabble or deal in the pain, like I acknowledge pain. I I think that's what makes the what I do different from like say coaching or like something that's more and I'm nothing against coaching or self-help or anything, but I still can get into the realm of like the the dark and the hard. But it's always with that uh intent of how how is your best self gonna show up now? You know, how can we create that for you? And so yeah, I use to really bore everybody here, but I use solution focused brief therapy, which is an evidence-based approach that's been around since the 70s. It's a dumb name. Even us who use it hate it, but it's just what we've been given. But it's it's I mean, it's like it's legit, it's a legit research-based therapy. But it really is supposed to or help it's supposed to help someone become their best self. I mean, it sounds so obvious and and b big blanket statement, but someone can expect like I'm not going to yeah, I'm not gonna like slap a label or shame you. I'm gonna really hear your story and then help you navigate that into the the best out possible outcome.

SPEAKER_01 38:37

So and tell our listeners also the name of your practice, how they can find you online. Because you have a great social yes, social media, like tell the handles, everything like that.

SPEAKER_06 38:47

Forget for a second, it's like it's uh Instagram is Cody Brian Creates, Cody Bryan Creates, and then uh my website's CodyBryan.com. I think my like official business name is Cody Bryan Counseling. So you can Google any of that and it'll something will show up.

SPEAKER_03 39:04

All right. Well that's awesome. And last question, because we can't end our podcast without the question of what do you love the most about Northwest Arkansas?

SPEAKER_06 39:12

Oh, that's a good question. I heard I heard somebody recently say like this is like one of the weirdest sp places because very rarely can you get this much ambition and this much accessibility put together you know, in one like place.

SPEAKER_04 39:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 39:27

And I was like, oh, that makes sense. Like there's a lot of I mean, a lot of people who are pursuing amazing things and also yeah, we have a lot of accessibility, whether that's art, you know, or the the trails and the people too. Like there's some really good folks here that are willing to give you their time. And so that I think those are top of mind. And yeah, I can't I can't not say nature. As a Tolkien fan, I have to get that in there. If you've ever read The Lord of the Rings, he's always articulating the world.

SPEAKER_01 39:59

Brock is shaking his head. I'm a big Lord of the Rings beer. I'm a big Lord of the Ring nerd.

SPEAKER_06 40:04

And so, like if you've ever read him, like I was if you've ever read Tolkien, then you it gives you a lens to see the what's to see creation, to see trees.

SPEAKER_01 40:12

You should meet Brian. Oh, yeah, because with Go Rogue Studios, his 40th was a Lord of the Rings.

SPEAKER_03 40:18

Oh it was the Lord of the Rings slash emo.

SPEAKER_01 40:21

Oh, yeah, it was the emo Lord of the Rings. Yeah, which is even better.

SPEAKER_03 40:24

Brock was the DJ. It was the best.

SPEAKER_01 40:27

And tell no listening. Oh, yes. Please.

SPEAKER_03 40:32

Real quick. Emo Gandalf. He was emo Gandalf, but he was Gandalf's brother, Randolph. Fun fact though about this is Jeff is not a fan of Luna 3. I know. It does make it better. It makes it even better. But I think Brock was the one that named him Randolph, as in Gandalf's emo brother. Gandalf's. It was amazing. He was wearing a wig of mutt. Yeah. Yeah. It was a fun time. That was a really fun time. Oh my gosh. All right. On that note. Oh my god, no. Now you've got a little bit of fun. You're thinking about all kinds of topics now. I will dive in. I was like, here we go, here we go.

SPEAKER_01 41:16

Thank you for coming in and sharing about your practice and everything you do. Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_06 41:21

Enjoy the things.

SPEAKER_01 41:22

Hey, thanks so much for listening today. If you liked what you heard, please consider subscribing to the podcast so you never miss an episode. You can also follow us on Instagram at People of NWA. Thanks so much.

SPEAKER_00 41:32

People of Northwest Arkansas with the two Danielle's produced by me, Brock Short of Brock Entertainment. Please rate, review, and like us on any podcast platform where you listen. For more information about today's guests and the show, please check the show notes. Thanks for listening.